Lars Rinnan (00:02)
So get this, one in five people get cancer during their lifetime. 20 million new cases every year, and about half of these die from cancer. So what if you could have chemotherapy that's 100 times more effective?

and nearly free of side effects. This could be reality in 2029.

Welcome to The World in 2029, the podcast where we explore how today's innovations are shaping our future. I'm your host Lars. I'm on a mission to spread positive insights into how today's pressing issues like climate change, hunger and disease are being addressed by exponential technologies that most people have never heard about. I've worked in the AI space for about 10 years and I've helped numerous tech startups.

So this is a topic I know well and it's extremely close to my heart.

My guest today is a man on a mission, looking to revolutionize cancer treatment. He has a PhD in chemistry. He has had a postdoc tenure in the University of Cologne in Germany and two more postdoc tenures at research institutes and in universities in Norway, all leading to where he is today. And today he's the CEO of iNANOD a startup looking to change the world for the better.

Nalinava welcome, it's great to have you here.

Nalinava (01:54)
Thank you, Lars, for your nice introduction. And the stepping stones are there, of course. Being a chemist, I started my journey as a PhD student after cracking an exam called National Eligibility Test in India. And then you get awarded with government fellowships.

There were 2,500 examinees probably and top 30 or 40 got the grants. So when we start that, after it happened, like one of my closest family member suffers cancer. And my PhD project was indirectly related to cancer from academic side.

Lars Rinnan (02:30)
it.

Nalinava (02:50)
But during those hospital visits and seeing my near one in chemotherapy suffering due to side effects, it always touched me and I kept on thinking, what am I doing if

our research is not actually focusing on the very real problem where dire need is there.

Lars Rinnan (03:17)
Yeah, exactly. And

Nalinava, just before we dive into that fantastic story, because I'm really dying to learn more about that story, if we backtrack a little bit, so what is really the problem with traditional chemotherapy these days?

Nalinava (03:39)
The challenge is that there are many biological, physiological barriers whenever an intravenous injection is given to the chemotherapy patients. But like you send a satellite from Earth to Mars or moon, and there are many barriers. And for that, you need multi-steps equipment for each.

challenge, you sort it out with a tool. So that kind of multi-step drug delivery mechanism is still lacking. And therefore, most of the patients are, even in modern days, receiving small molecules as medicine. And these molecules, when given intravenously, they spread all over the body.

These molecules are medicine for the cancer cells only, but they are poisonous to the healthy cells. So it's carpet bombing going and we see the cancer patient is suffering.

Lars Rinnan (04:56)
Yeah, I think I saw some statistics on that saying that only 0.2 % of the traditional chemotherapy drugs actually reach the tumor and the rest just damages healthy cells. Is that correct?

Nalinava (05:14)
Yes, the research publication, it talks about the median statistics of injected dose reaching to the cancer tumor inside. The statistics is 0.2%. And unfortunately, this statistics is not highlighted. But fortunately, this statistics is also improving when we get

to use the nanotechnology for example or nanobiotechnology together. So these statistics improves. Now there is a class of analysts or scientists they are saying yes that that statistics will look low if you have more data from the past.

But if you look at the data from the recent years, then these statistics has improved. But median statistics, as it's a parameter to judge, in one experiment, it actually got proven that a common cancer drug named Paclitaxel, the statistics is 0.2 reaching inside the tumor. And when it's

packed in a nano vehicle, then the statistics improved three times up to 0.6%. 0.6 % means three times improvement. So improvement is happening through the modern science, but overall median statistics, yes, it's very low.

Lars Rinnan (07:06)
Yeah, it's really surprising. It's probably also a little bit under communicated and I can understand why. But if you look at all the side effects of chemotherapy, mean, let us in on some of the details of what kind of side effects do you see from chemotherapy since it is so, yeah, you mentioned it. It's a bit like carpet bumping.

Nalinava (07:33)
Yes, now these molecules which are anti-cancer and you require to nail down the tumor and even these low statistics etc. still when they get inside they work and you hear day by day more cancer survival stories, right? But those who even survive from the cancer, I met a lady in Oslo

Lars Rinnan (07:54)
Mm.

Nalinava (08:02)
She is also an entrepreneur. And she was telling me, Nalinava, I won't be able to tell you how numb I feel my na- below my knee, how numb it is that I walk, but still I feel like I am having a twinkling sensation. Blood is not going as if below. And during the chemotherapy, the patients lose their appetite. They vomit. They are drowsy, nausea.

And they're not in peace and their nervous system is also attacked, their digestion system is attacked and the kidney, the excretion system that is also kind of overburdened. So the so-called unnecessary chemo drugs, they stay in the body for say two, three weeks and keep

Lars Rinnan (09:00)
Exactly.

Nalinava (09:02)
the patient in a very difficult state and doctors cannot inject another chemo till these side effects are low.

Lars Rinnan (09:14)
Exactly. And is it also the case that you can only have so many chemotherapy treatments until the body just can't take anymore?

Nalinava (09:26)
Yes, there is a the chemo regime is a point of optimization, you can say the doctor sees, observes that we have given an injection and probably this will work. So doctor has to analyze the situation, the type of cancer, where it is and the stage and the nature of aggressiveness of the tumor. So they do analyze.

And after that, they select medicine, medication, right? But still you don't know whether inside the body it will be effectively working and how the rest of the limbs will work to this. So maybe tumor is going down fast, but the side effects are more for a particular patient, for a particular drug.

This is a complex and challenging field, of course, as they say, the scientists say, that no tumors are same, not identical. So a lot of AI implementation is required now to categorize, subcategorize, and specify so that this analysis is best, that before injecting a drug, doctor knows, yes, this is going to work.

Probably by 2029, there will be lot of data analysis and things will be in a way better shape.

Lars Rinnan (10:58)
Yeah.

Yeah, let's hope so. We'll definitely get back to that question. So why hasn't there been a better way? I mean, it's been decades of using chemo and still it's such low precision. mean, 0.2 % is really surprising for a layman like myself. And regarding it's still effective, at least to a certain extent.

It probably tells you a little bit about how strong this, let's say, poison is, and hence why the side effects are so grueling. But why hasn't there been a better way? I mean, you mentioned AI. Is that probably part of the answer?

Nalinava (11:48)
Lars, you have to understand or the way scientific community worked is A, we need to get a correct medicine first that this medicine A is best for the type cancer say A. So lot of focus is on there, but it is true that the drug

even reaching to the tumor, for example, solid malignant tumors, they reach on the side, but still the tumor has got some characteristic pressure outwards, diffusion pressure outwards, etc. So it doesn't allow, it doesn't welcome the medicines to come inside and penetrate it. So the deeply seated cancer cells and the oncogenes inside those cells

they kept on generating more cancer cells. So the delivery percentage is also a challenge. should have, mean, scientists should have addressed way before, but the main focus was to get a medicine first. So probably this is number one reason, probably this is a mere speculation or based on kind of reading review articles observation, you can say.

Then number two is this poor delivery statistics only became a matter of topic in 2006 when there was a publication in Nature Communication. So to improve these statistics, you have to have multidisciplinary and multi-step drug delivery mechanism approach.

And that means you have to combine with many scientific faculties together to improve the statistics. But the way funding projects through universities, et cetera, happens, unless there is a big consortium written to take this challenge up, probably, probably, most probably, I mean,

I may be totally wrong here, but that's my feeling is probably nobody's kind of dare to address this. And you know how the funding mechanism works is like either from government through taxpayers funding, then those funding are sorted where results are more or less guaranteed that there will be some good results.

Lars Rinnan (14:19)
Yeah, exactly.

Nalinava (14:38)
then the funding happens. The risk-taking funding also doesn't happen. So it's not all about scientists. It's more about political decisions.

Lars Rinnan (14:39)
Hmm.

Yeah, probably both sides. And I mean, how good are universities at working cross departmental? Is that probably also part of the problem?

Nalinava (14:52)
Both sides, yeah.

Even international and inter-university collaborations. Maybe you need to solve this problem or to improve on the statistics, need.

Lars Rinnan (15:08)
Yes.

Nalinava (15:18)
12, 15 institutes to work together in a targeted goal. And then it's not an easy problem. look, how NASA or spacecraft, et cetera, space research, then everybody collaborates because it looks great. It's very challenging and also very knowledge gaining. So everybody's emotion flows for that research.

Lars Rinnan (15:21)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Nalinava (15:48)
Now, point is, we are now able to send satellites to Mars, but we are still not able to send a correct medicine at the correct site, at the correct quantity and correct time to our cancer cells.

Lars Rinnan (16:03)
Yeah,

it's an interesting situation. But I mean, this is clearly a problem that we need to find a solution to. And your research has led you to where you are now. You claim to have found a game changer, combining AI and nanotechnology to revolutionize cancer treatment. So how do AI and nanotech relate to cancer?

Nalinava (16:30)
Yes, nanotechnology was supposed to change the paradigm. Actually, revolution which we are talking now, it should have happened say 10, 15 years back. That was the perception, especially when physicist Feynman talked about that nanotechnology will enable us to cure a lot of diseases, something he quoted.

Lars Rinnan (16:56)
That's a long time ago.

Nalinava (16:58)
long time ago. But then people thought, well, that was probably 60 years back. So probably 50 by 50 years, it should have been awkward. But it's been 10 years still delayed. Right. And the thing is, there are bits and pieces in the scientific publications. But as I was telling that nobody was trying to bring flowers and make a garland.

Lars Rinnan (17:11)
Hmm.

Nalinava (17:29)
together. So I see it clicks in my mind and two great molecular biologists in my network, my wife and her supervisor. We see, we find that yes, we can pack in nanotechnology and deliver in a correct mechanism. And we probably do it in a faster way because we came across

two special types of molecules, group of molecules, which has actually shown the ability individually to cleave the tumor or penetrate inside. So we would like to use that as a tool or wheel to take the nano vehicle inside. Now the beauty of nanotechnology, which we were originally discussing, is

an effect called enhanced permeable and retention effect. The blood vessels or veins next to the tumor, they generate more fine veins or capillaries they call it. And that happens due to oncogenes sending bad signals that we are hungry and we need more oxygen and glucose food. So

Lars Rinnan (18:56)
Mm-hmm.

Nalinava (18:57)
everything happens very fast. And as it happens very fast, so the veins generate some pores, leaks, holes, and those holes are of nano size. So if intravenously nanoparticle is injected, then passively those nanoparticles deposit more and more next to the tumor.

Lars Rinnan (19:11)
Exactly.

Nalinava (19:26)
here comes the magic of nanoparticles. But this is not enough. Then you need something to target and surround the tumor from all sides. And there comes nanobiotechnology. So the biotechnological knowledge then applied to nanotechnology. And now we have active targeting nanoparticles. But that is still not enough. We do believe we...

Everybody needs our tool to deliver that drug decisively, accurately.

Lars Rinnan (20:05)
Fantastic. So you mentioned that these are nano-sized. So would you like to try to explain what nano-particles are for the audience?

Nalinava (20:18)
Yeah, nano means one of a billion. One by a billion is nano as per Greek number system, right? Now.

One-tenth of is, yeah, that's very small. But one-tenth of that is atomic size. That's where the atoms and molecules are scaled. But if you pile up 10 atoms together, then it becomes one nano size. So it's bigger than atomic size. So those holes, radius, are in nano size. That's why nanoparticle passed

Lars Rinnan (20:31)
So it's very small.

Yeah.

Yeah, the holes in the blood

veins. Exactly.

Nalinava (21:01)
Yes, and

then they match the hole and the size. So the deposition happens. But for even smaller stuff, they also go through those holes, but they also go to other parts, right? There is no selectivity for them. But nanoparticle, then to some extent selectivity, you expect and that happens.

Lars Rinnan (21:09)
Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, I got this, I can't remember who actually told me, think it might have been a physicist that I was working with, but she explained to me because I said, I mean, how big is a nanometer? And she said, well, it's one billionth of a meter. I said, okay, but what's one billionth of a meter? It's really hard to imagine, you know. And she said, well, you know, it's the length that your fingernail is growing in one second.

Nalinava (21:57)
Yeah. Yeah. If I'm not wrong, there are a lot of illustration on this. If this world radius is.

Lars Rinnan (21:58)
And I was, that's very small.

Nalinava (22:13)
one meter then a football is a nanometer.

Lars Rinnan (22:18)
Yeah, something like that.

Nalinava (22:24)
And a tennis ball is an atom.

Lars Rinnan (22:24)
That's illustrative.

Exactly. Yeah, it would have just about 10 tennis balls for a football. Yeah Makes sense. No, that's so that's really good. So this is this is super super super small and so what you're actually making is is almost like Trojan horses for cancer for cancer drug delivery

Nalinava (22:51)
Yes, but that is not my contribution or our contribution. This technology and Trojan horse technique and using nanoparticles covering or coating the active pharma ingredient, the real medicine, chemo medicine, this has been explored. This has been explored by others and it's very good technology.

Lars Rinnan (23:10)
Hmm. Hmm.

Nalinava (23:20)
coming up and in use. But what we want to have is an integrated system, not only thing A, not only thing B, not only thing C. We want double action, chemo and immunotherapy together on site. So the immunotherapy can, the immunocells can surround the tumor.

and attack it from outside and the chemo goes inside and kills the tumor. So the double action happens and the crackdown on tumor really happens fast. and then we A) improve the statistics of injected dose and B) we do the immunotherapy on site enabled by nanotechnology and with speed acceleration. Yeah. So

Lars Rinnan (24:11)
with speed as well, yes.

Nalinava (24:15)
Why why speed is important is because cancer grows exponentially so if you are not taking into account the time parameter Then probably cancer is going to win over Slow chemotherapy, right? So chemo has to be if you are going for multiple chemo. So the gap should not be long So side effects must be much much less

Lars Rinnan (24:20)
Yeah.

Yes. Yes.

Nalinava (24:42)
so that you can give second chemo fast and not many chemos and nail down the tumor. So 2029 hopefully these things will happen and probably we will be getting huge help from machine learning and artificial intelligence and computational biology so that each individual tumor can be identified and suppressed.

Lars Rinnan (25:01)
Exactly.

Nalinava (25:11)
categorized and then we will be able to select the correct active pharma ingredient and the nanoparticle so that the personalization also happens of the platform technologies. So there are platform technologies but you need to translate it to personalization. Then only you have the best cure for cancer patients.

Lars Rinnan (25:36)
Yeah. So, the AI kind of models how the particles move in the body and you, and it helps you fine tune the delivery, like for maximum precision and effect for each individual based on their different circumstances. Is that right?

Nalinava (25:51)
Yes, yes,

yes. The tumor is different means tumor microenvironment is different. The aggressiveness of the tumor is different. The mutations by the oncogenes, they are different. But still, the way imaging happening these days, it is becoming very much less difficult.

to understand the tumor day by day. doctors will be able to take a fast decision that, OK, yes, this tumor is different, but still we can categorize into this subtype of this cancer at this stage. And therefore, that particular medicine with this nano formulation composition will be the best treatment available.

Lars Rinnan (26:23)
Mm.

Nalinava (26:49)
the chance of risk is much lower because you also mitigate that risk through the previous data analysis.

Lars Rinnan (26:54)
Yeah.

Yes, exactly. So you're combining a lot of different features that you hear and also, yeah, and also AI. And of course, I mean, the development of AI is of course also exponential and is that part of why this is now possible? That AI has actually developed as it has and is so powerful as it is today. Is this also part of why it's...

Nalinava (27:04)
Yeah, yeah, act, actually, actually, yeah.

Lars Rinnan (27:28)
possible to actually do what you're doing right now.

Nalinava (27:32)
Yes, AI is empowering scientists, medical practitioners, analyzing the researchers, even the bio-distribution, for example, of a medicine. Even that, those can be predicted. like 10 years back, it was like, AI or theoretical calculation, ⁓ unless you do it, you never know.

But now gradually that field has emerged and help other scientific fields as well. For example, microfluidics and nanofluidics, how inside our body capillaries, blood and other particles are moving. So these things are more understood than what it was 10 years back.

So it is more and more transparent day by day. So we are moving towards, of course, a better future where cancer patients' tumor can be analyzed and properly treated for permanent cure. I'm very hopeful. I'm very hopeful to see that Norway has politically and scientific community has

built a strong body on AI application and implementation in scientific discoveries and medicinal development as well. And a of lectures we encounter when Oslo Cancer Cluster brings cancer cross-links, cetera, conferences. it's very enthusiastically received, these developments.

Lars Rinnan (29:22)
Yeah,

yeah. So I'm led to believe that Norway actually has some of the best cancer data in the world. For some reason, we've recorded all those cancer data and collected them for a long time. I mean, it's a small country, but probably we're not covering all the different cancer types as well as we maybe could.

So we have lot of data. There's a lot of focus on it in research. think, you you mentioned also cancer cluster, which is doing fantastic stuff. So this is perhaps also part or maybe at least a small part of your big puzzle to solve this. So you need to have the environment around you and other researchers to discuss with and funding, of course.

Fantastic.

Nalinava (30:21)
Exactly,

And yes, Norway's data should enable Norway to lead the journey for others as well.

Lars Rinnan (30:34)
Yeah, let's let's hope we can do that. No, this is super impressive. You know, I just love it when people do these kind of discoveries and it's probably so far out from what most people do for a living. And I am led to understand that this your journey, this all started when one of your loved ones had cancer. You started, you know, story and I stopped you. I'm sorry for that. But you

So one of your loved ones had cancer and you visited her during her chemotherapy sessions and you were appalled by what you saw. So please tell us that story.

Nalinava (31:15)
Yeah. Yeah.

The incident is that we I'm a Bengali from India and I was born and raised in the city of joy Kolkata commonly known as Calcutta. But that's 2000 kilometers away from where I was pursuing my PhD. That is Mumbai, what is called city of dream. And

In Mumbai, had probably still it is the best cancer research and treatment institutes. It's called Tata Memorial Cancer Hospital. And I was the only family man living in Bombay. So the doctors in Calcutta were taking little time to analyze stuff. And meanwhile, that tumor was growing really fast.

Lars Rinnan (31:53)
Mmm.

Nalinava (32:15)
So our family decided that we should treat this in Mumbai in Tata Memorial Cancer Research Center. And then I was in Mumbai. So I took breaks those days to visit hospital together with my relative. And it was very shocking scenes. Even if you...

probably visit, will see 70 people waiting outside the doctor's chamber with various sizes of tumors in various parts of the body. And you will, since I was making multiple visits, I was seeing the person with tumor before chemo, with tumor during chemo, and some I saw got cured.

So I saw what happens during chemo. mean, patients lose their hair, they go skinny because they're not being able to eat anything. And since they're not able to eat properly anything, then the cure from inside also takes longer time.

Lars Rinnan (33:22)
Mm.

course.

Nalinava (33:33)
Food and nutrition is the main source of your proteins going to the right places and this and that, So it was very tough. like, and I, as I mentioned, I was thinking always, ⁓ I'm a chemist and there is a serious problem I see. And I'll be happy to publish on the catalysis and

oxidation and reduction state of the molecule when it anchors with the DNA. But then my research will stop on cancer research. But then I was thinking when I apply for postdoc, I must try to synthesize better anti-cancer drugs so that the side effects are less. But those all but

Lars Rinnan (34:25)
So this was actually

instrumental in starting your journey or directing you on that journey.

Nalinava (34:34)
I had, I still had no idea that I'll be doing this. I had my thoughts like I'll be doing postdoc on this and when I, I'll be returning back to India and become a professor in any reputed university. And then I'll make many PhDs doing this job and try to solve the challenge. That was my perception. I think that's a common perception for

the PhD students or postdocs in general. I mean, if somebody says, for this problem, you want to be an entrepreneur, then people wonder, is he talking sense and how far has he planned, et cetera, et cetera. But then,

Lars Rinnan (35:24)
Yeah, it's really tough

to be an entrepreneur.

Nalinava (35:27)
Yeah, but then I was not knowing that I'll get married to a cancer biologist and she will be doing her PhD in why modern cancer drug is getting resistant. And then our say, sense and frustration and aspirations will match.

Lars Rinnan (35:49)
So you really met a soulmate on a lot of different levels in your life.

Nalinava (35:55)
Yeah, I say

when somebody asks me that what's your undue advantage for this company, I say that, yeah, I am a trained organometallic chemist, but there is a biology teacher in my home.

Lars Rinnan (36:13)
Yeah, so you're actually talking about this stuff 24-7.

Nalinava (36:19)
Yeah, yeah, actually, even if I make any mistake, like if I made any mistake in this podcast while talking about biology, I'll be severely criticized.

Lars Rinnan (36:21)
Yeah.

Hahaha,

fantastic! No, but actually I think that's really good because then you, then you, both of you probably grow based on all this and you know, one of you gets an idea, the other one kind of takes it a little bit further and you kind of help each other, you know, become, become even better and better and better. I think that's, I think that's a beautiful relationship, really. Of course you need to talk about something else probably than cancer.

at some point but you know still

Nalinava (37:01)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Lars Rinnan (37:10)
Yes,

no doubt about that. Oh, that's fantastic. So this is more than a business for you really. I mean, it's like a personal mission to change how the world fights cancer, driven by your firsthand insights into patient suffering and now supported by and helped by your wife as well. Fantastic.

Nalinava (37:28)
Yes and

Yes,

am. Frankly speaking, we could not have started "aksjeselskap" sells Cup or shared stock company unless she was supporting.

Lars Rinnan (37:49)
No, think that goes for everything. Any startup is so hard work. The survival rates, I mean, we can talk about survival rates for cancer. The survival rates for startups is probably even worse. I think just about 25 % survived to their fifth anniversary, which is really, really...

Tragic I think but it tells you how hard it is and you you're trying to do two things You know, it's both a startup and some some fantastic research which is both of them are so hard in the in themselves and combining them is is

Nalinava (38:18)
Yeah, and 10 % and some, sorry.

You know, when I get most fear during this journey, when I get a get a letter written coming from The Tax Authorities Tutton or from in a very hardcore, difficult Norwegian and I get scared. And then I have my companions and service providers and friends and then they say.

Lars Rinnan (38:53)
Yeah.

Nalinava (39:03)
This is a hard Norwegian language for us as well. Don't worry.

Lars Rinnan (39:07)
Yeah,

yeah. Well, fantastic. So you could actually say that you're actually gone from heartbreak, seeing your loved ones to breakthrough, which is really, really interesting. But I mean, it's one thing to do this in the lab, but quite another thing to make a global impact. So how do you plan to make this a reality and to scale it globally?

Nalinava (39:37)
Very good question. I can tell you when I applied to register the business from my home address, it took five weeks to convince DNB (the bank). Their question was how you will be able to run this from your home address. But we convinced and got registered.

Lars Rinnan (39:54)
the bank.

Nalinava (40:06)
Now coming back to the real question, the point is team collaboration and good agreements, consortiums writing for European calls and national calls also and international calls consortium and reaching out to the big funds, big investors private to anyone. It's the problem of anyone.

So we reach out to anyone. If somebody says, yes, I am with you to take the risk, let's join the hands and do it together.

Lars Rinnan (40:49)
So this probably also requires quite a lot of cash. I mean, it's not just a simple startup. You're not like making some kind of AI driven marketing gimmick, which is pretty straightforward these days. You're trying to do something really, really complex, which also requires a lot of preclinical studies and clinical trials and know.

Nalinava (41:01)
Hmm.

Lars Rinnan (41:16)
regulatory hurdles, et cetera, et cetera. So how much money do you actually expect to burn through to actually get this to a commercial global level?

Nalinava (41:32)
Lars, the plain and simple answer is we strategize with professionals together and I'm fortunate that established and experienced team we have and we understand it's a slow market and slow industry. So we also adapt and we don't try to raise any

one single Kroner extra. I take a very lean low salary and most of our advisors are either investing from their pocket or sweating for the equity. But they are helping whenever I need their advice. So that's the best thing. That's why we are a very lean cost

micro pharma at the moment. But we do have a strategy and we already reached out to the stakeholders in the ecosystem and they have given us a kind of a target that you come to this stage and we are there. So I would like to believe on their promises. That when we have proof of principle that mouse data to collect the mouse data

Now we are reaching out to the deep pocket angels and even going for crowdfunding and high net worth individuals. So small story here when in 2015, even before registration, we were engaging with our web page domain name and we got the web page domain name. It was some $15 or something.

But then it costs 25 or $35 if we make an email, ceo at the rate inanod.com. But then my closest co-founder, she tells me, you never know. Maybe people are going to take this as just a joke.

So better you wait. Don't spend money before the Christmas is over.

Lars Rinnan (44:04)
Exactly. mean it is $25.

Nalinava (44:05)
And since then...

Yeah, and since then, the most used email ID is my personal email ID for this project.

Lars Rinnan (44:16)
Exactly.

Nalinava (44:18)
So we still have, we do have info at the rate iNanoid now from 2017 or 2018 probably. So two years, there was only one email ID for iNANOD.

Lars Rinnan (44:33)
Yeah,

Nalinava (44:35)
So

we don't raise fund just being a company and we have a huge promise to deliver. We raise fund for each step and we get very good advice. People who teach us in BI that how the tech companies should raise fund in each step and how much they should get diluted in each step and who will be the funders in each step.

Lars Rinnan (44:45)
Mm.

Nalinava (45:03)
So those road mapping has been done and we have reached out to the all stakeholders as well. But they give us targets that, okay, we fund in this stage, so come after this data. So we know that there are people waiting. Of course, there are challenges. We need to cross that barrier. So always catch 22.

Lars Rinnan (45:27)
Yes, always, you know at the end at the end of the journey, yeah

Nalinava (45:29)
But this last one moment, this

industry is much calibrated after you have the data on mouse. So probably we are spending most difficult days now, but if we actually are successful when we show that the multi-step drug delivery system is working faster and accurate and imparting way less side effects.

Lars Rinnan (45:38)
Exactly.

Nalinava (45:59)
Probably there will be funders offering their funds to us.

Lars Rinnan (46:06)
Yeah, I think so as well. I think everyone knows that these kind of projects, really complex, deep technology projects like drug development or pharma projects, they do take a long while. There are lot of hurdles to pass and people know that. But also they also know that the potential payoff at the end of the journey is also huge.

And of course here you have one thing is the potential profit, which is substantial. But I would say that even more important is you have the potential of making a cancer treatment revolution, which is fantastic. And I just love these bold visions. I'm guessing that at the end of some of these trials, there's probably

some big pharma waiting to say hmm we need these these really clever guys they've done something that we haven't been able to do at all let's let's buy those guys

Nalinava (47:18)
I can assure you before that there will be many arguments.

Lars Rinnan (47:22)
Probably. I mean, they also have an existing business to kind of defend. So, yeah, who knows? Maybe, maybe you need to go on the side of those kind of big pharma companies and disrupt them. I don't know.

Could be.

Nalinava (47:39)
We will

see as per the situation arises. And I'm sure that everyone wants to save cancer patients and give them way better life during their journey as cancer patients.

Lars Rinnan (47:56)
Yeah,

absolutely. It's a really worthwhile course. mean, no, no, this podcast is called The World in 2029. And I always finish off with, you know, asking the guest, what about 2029? So, will we have chemotherapy?

no longer being a dreaded word as treatments become more targeted and gentle on patients in 2029? Is that the future we're looking at?

Nalinava (48:31)
Yes, we are working for that future when you find your next door neighbor or a close relative had been through the cancer treatment, had been given injections, but still didn't lose appetite, didn't lose the smile from the faces. I would like to say that we, we

Lars Rinnan (48:53)
Exactly.

Nalinava (48:58)
we envision that 2029.

Lars Rinnan (49:03)
That's a good outlook. I'm looking forward to that. And probably everyone listening in is also looking forward to that because as I started with, one in five people gets cancer during their lifetime? So everyone knows at least one person in their family, by their loved ones, in their friends or colleagues that has had cancer or probably also died from cancer.

So this is something that affects everyone.

Nalinava (49:31)
Yeah. Yeah,

in Norway, still a patient can't afford or government helps to get the best therapies, right? If chemo didn't work, then you go for immunotherapy. But those are very costly for people in India or Philippines. So we need to create that world where those are also

Lars Rinnan (49:58)
Yeah.

Nalinava (50:02)
able to afford these medications. Probably you don't need 5-10 chemos. Maybe two shots of very good combined therapy is integrated combined therapy is good enough to bring back you in the normal life.

Lars Rinnan (50:22)
Yeah, that's a very positive way to finish off, I think. And, you know, this conversation really gives the world a lot of hope for better and more precise cancer treatment. Something that, you know, affects all of us in one way or another. And it also shows what is possible if the right people experience the pains of the existing solutions and sets off on a mission to solve it, aided by AI and other technology.

supported by good people and institutions. And also a lot of investors are not solely looking for financial returns, but also a better world. So to our listeners, if you want to learn more about how AI and nanotech is transforming cancer treatment, check out iNanod at iNanod.com. Nalinava, thank you so much for what you're doing for the world.

and for joining us today, sharing your mission. And to everyone tuning in, thanks for listening to The World in 2029. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, join us next time as we uncover the next big idea shaping our future. And remember, the future is better than you think. Take care, thank you very much.

Nalinava (51:44)
Thank you.